Advice? Thinking about getting into shotgun sports

[G-MAN]

I'm thinking about joining the local gun club which is real big into shotgun sports: Trap, Skeet, 5-Stand, and Sporting Clays.

I sold all my shotguns years ago. What would be a good, relatively inexpensive shotgun to get for use in these sports?

[wwillson]

G-Man,

In what general price range are you looking? If "thinking about joining" to me means that you might try it and might or might not stick with shotgunning, then I think an 870 Remington is darn hard to beat. Great value and will hold it's value very well if you decide to sell it. Another plus is that the 870 is about the most customizable shotgun out there if you stick with the shotgun sports.

Keep in mind that my prospective is from Trap, as I have never shot Skeet, 5-Stand, Double Trap, or Sporting Clays. I'm sure others will chime as well.

Wayne

[G-MAN]

So pumps are okay for trap? I thought O/U was the gun of choice?

[wwillson]

So pumps are okay for trap? I thought O/U was the gun of choice?

Yes they are, if you are willing to part with the money. I would suggest starting with an inexpensive shotgun, them move up from there if you find it necessary.

Wayne

[G-MAN]

Originally Posted By: G-MAN

So pumps are okay for trap? I thought O/U was the gun of choice?

Yes they are, if you are willing to part with the money.

CDNN has the Remington/Baikal SPR 310 O/U for $359.00.

Here's a review.

[JayPee]

G-Man: Trap shooting usually requires a full choke barrel, which produces more recoil than a skeet gun with a more open choke while shooting the same load. So you are going to get whacked hard 25 times in a row.....which in turn means you absolutely must buy a gun that fits you perfectly, or you'll go home with a black eye or a bloody nose. The best place to look for a beginning trap gun is from other trap shooters. Lots of guys start out with pump guns and set them up specifically for trap shooting with adjustable cheek pieces and adjustable recoil pads, and so on. Then they decide to go on to an auto or O/U and leave their beginning gun in the closet. I am a skeet shooter who has tried trap shooting and was surprised at the difference in recoil between the two choke constrictions. So put a lot of effort into getting a gun that fits you. Selling shotguns to fellow clay bird shooters is a brisk practice among trap and skeet shooters. Give it a try.

JP

PS - Don't ever buy a clay bird shotgun without at least shouldering it first. i.e. no catalog purchases without trying one first.

[wwillson]

G-Man,

Echoing what JayPee said, if you are going to shoot any quantity of trap, make sure your gun has an adjustable trap stock (recoil pad & comb) and study how to adjust it properly. I would suggest "Stock Fitting Secrets" - read it a couple times. If you shoot with a stock that doesn't fit and/or is improperly adjusted, you WILL punished and you will get turned off to shooting. I've shot lots of trap with a field stock and it isn't fun. When I switched to a Jack West stock and a Ken Rucker recoil pad adjuster on my 870 AND learned how to properly fit the shotgun, I didn't want to stop shooting. No more headache, sore cheek, or sore shoulder. Just do it...

BTW - the shotgun pictured in your post has a rising comb, you'll get the daylights kicked out of you with that thing...

Wayne

[G-MAN]

Maybe I need to reconsider this. I thought trap and skeet was done with a normal shotgun. I didn't know I would have to buy a "special" trap or skeet gun.

[wwillson]

I don't mean to turn you off from the sport!

You don't *have* to get anything special. I just recommend that whatever you choose of a gun, that it have an adjustable stock. I wish you lived closer, I'd just load you an 870 with a field stock and one with a trap stock. You would quickly see my point.

Wayne

[G-MAN]

BTW - the shotgun pictured in your post has a rising comb, you'll get the daylights kicked out of you with that thing...

So do you want a straight comb for a trap gun?

[JayPee]

G-Man I'll bow to Wayne from here on out since I am a skeet shooter. Shooting the clay bird sports with field guns, like Wayne said, is a good way to get turned off completely to shooting in them because of the amount of shells fired. And you always score better with a dedicated trap gun. I tried it with several guns for about a year and finally had to get a good gun or quit shooting skeet, it was beating me up so bad. Trap is harder on you because of the full choke. I wound up with a Browning Citori XS Skeet 12 guage that is so well fitted to me it can shoot without me. These shotguns are like finding a defensive pistol in that shootability is everything and all else is unimportant.

JP

PS....if you buy a dedicated trap gun from another shooter, you can always get your money back out of it. You just don't lose money on these guns unless you shoot them to pieces, and in that event you've gotten your money out of them in enjoyment.

[G-MAN]

I've never had or fired a pump shotgun, so learning trap and an unfamiliar action style at the same time would not be a good idea, IMO. So I think it will either be an O/U or an auto.

What about a used Beretta 390 Super Trap with an adjustable stock?

[JayPee]

I googled it and the basic gun appears to be well thought of by clay bird shooters. Here's one:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=199509

I have heard a lot of good things about Beretta autos over the years. But I have never fired one. Sorry I can't help more than that.

JP

[Moe]

A good start to the claybird sports is an automatic. They are more expensive than a pump, but the recoil reduction is noticable. In competition skeet, I use a Remington 1100 Competition that has been fitted for me in the 12ga event and doubles. It's a heavy gun and shoots POA, but it could be adjusted to shoot trap if I so desired. It's also a great Sporting Clays gun and I use it for Dove hunting. A Beretta 391 would be another good choice.

Stock fitting is critical. Adjustable combs and recoil pads are a must have item. Field guns are made to fit a wide variety of shooter's but really end up fitting no one. Even my field gun is fitted to my specs. There is a big difference between a light field gun that is carried all day hunting pheasants with proper hunting ammo and a competition gun used on the skeet or trap field with light target loads. Like JayPee said, The gun HAS TO FIT for the intended purpose.

I had a long conversation with Todd Bender about how a competition skeet shotgun should fit. He starts all his clinics with a gun fitting session for a good reason. If your not comfortable with the fit you are at a real disadvantage. If you are just starting shooting skeet, I would recommend Bender's video. It's a great place to start.

When I started shooting skeet, I bought a Browning Citori Grade 7, 4 barrel set. Within a year I had a Kreighoff K-80 with 32" barrels and Briley sub-gauge tubes with a Precision-Fit stock. My Browning is now taking up space in one of my gun safes.

If I were starting out now, I would buy a Remington 1100 Sporting 12 gauge. It comes with Briley extended chokes, has beautiful wood, and can be fitted with an adjustable comb and recoil pad. It's soft shooting and is very versatile. I am thinking about buying one in .410 for dove hunting and sporting clays. For under a grand, I think it's the bargain in the Remington line up. It's a good gun for starting in the shotgun sports and is a great dove gun.

[UplandBri]

Don't do it!!! it's addicting...

I would try to find an over under with a parallel comb that fits you. Automatics are ok but harder to clean and tend to be less desirable for trap doubles and 5 stand. If you don't plan on shooting trap doubles and 5 stand then an 390 is a great gun. I have a 12 gauge 1100 that I don't really care for and as a result never shoot..

I still hunt with a pump but rarely shoot clays with it other than to get ready for hunting.

Good luck

Bri

[wwillson]

G-MAN,

Did you decide to get a shotgun and give trap a try?

Wayne

[G-MAN]

G-MAN,

Did you decide to get a shotgun and give trap a try?

Wayne

Still looking and thinking. I know you said not to get a gun online, but doesn't this look like a decent trap gun?

[UplandBri]

I would find out if it fits you...I like the Monte Carlo stock and extended forcing cone.. The price is right but sometimes you get what you pay for and sometimes you get less.. If you ever get more than you pay for let me know and I'll buy two of each..

[G-MAN]

So...returning to this topic: If I get an 870, is this the stock I need to tailor it to fit me for trap or skeet?

http://www.overstock.com/Sports-Toys/Wes...40/product.html

[wwillson]

G-MAN,

This is the Jack West stock I have on my 870. The move from the field stock to this stock makes a night and day difference in trap shooting. You can get your eye in the same spot every time and keep it there. I bought mine from Ken Rucker at Speed Bump Stock Works because I also wanted his recoil pad adjuster. I'm very happy with both the stock and the recoil pad adjuster and have recommended Ken to many people.

Wayne

[edhackett]

G-MAN,

Are you interested in just trap or do you want to try sporting clays and skeet also?

Do you see yourself shooting at a level higher than "just for fun" in the future?

There is no such thing as a universal gun for all shotgun sports, but some types are more universal than others. The high, straight comb guns that are being talked about are specialized trap guns. A properly designed an proper fitting "field" stock is comfortable to shoot. I'll go into more detail once I have an idea of what you have in mind.

I've been shooting shotguns for a bit over 40 years, starting with hunting as a kid, shooting trap in college, night leagues over the years, then sporting clays, including local leagues, and being the captain of a first place winning team here at work. Don't think the above means I'm a good shot. ;-) My brain wiring(concentration) prevents me progressing past the just for fun stage. I've "been there, done that" so hopefully can offer G-MAN a bit of what I've learned over the years.

Ed

[G-MAN]

Ed, thanks for you input. Here is what I think I'm looking at: Once I visit my local shotgun club (the oldest in the state, BTW), and decide if I like the people, etc., I suspect I will start out just shooting skeet. From what I understand, it's the least expensive and requires the least "specialized" shotgun to do it effectively. I just need a good gun to get started, which means I could probably do fine by not buying anything and use my old Browning Auto-5 just to get a taste of the sport.

If I wind up getting hooked and want to move on to trap and sporting clays, etc., I can then worry about getting a more specialized shotgun.

How does that sound?

[edhackett]

That sounds like a good way to start. Take that J.C. Higgins out too. You can shoot trap, skeet, and sporting clays with it too.

The trap gun is the most specialized of the shotguns. These are characterized by the high, straight comb and an accompanying wide, tall, angled rib. This combination is designed to shoot high. In American trap the bird is thrown at the same speed and elevation. You are always shooting at a rising bird. Trap guns have a built in lead to the rise. This allows you to see the bird above the barrel. They are not quick handling. They are optimized for smoothness and consistency within the rather narrow left-right range encountered in trap. This configuration does not work at all for field, skeet, or sporting clays. A true trap gun is as useless as a screen door on a submarine anywhere but the trap field.

Skeet and Sporting clays guns are essentially field guns, or very slight variations of a field gun. These guns all shoot to the point of aim. This is essential for the varying shots you get in hunting, skeet and sporting clays. In these disciplines you have hard left, hard right, rising(sometimes straight up) dropping, and shots that come straight at you or overhead from behind. The "rabbit" in sporting clays rolls along the ground. You need a gun that shoots to point of aim and swings quickly.

Most of us started out out with ill fitting, poorly designed, light field guns. These kicked the snot out of us. It was a revelation to shoot a properly designed competition grade gun for the first time. A friend has a cheap, Spanish made over and under that a single light target load will leave you literally bruised and bleeding. On the other hand, my Beretta sporting clays O/U with it's full "field" stock geometry(typically 1.5 inch drop at the comb, 2.5" drop at the heel) shoots as soft as any trap gun I've shot. Proper stock dimensions all around, back-bored barrels, shallow forcing cones, and a decent weight all contribute to its pleasant shooting characteristics.

You can shoot trap with a "field" gun just fine. The the disadvantage is that depending on where you take the shot, the bird will be partially or fully obscured by the barrel(s). That situation won't be ideal for shooting at the competition level. I've shot 50/50 with an entry level field O/U, and have broken 46-48/50 with a 28 gauge from the 16 yard line.

I've been through pumps, autos, and O/U. I've settled on O/U for sporting disciplines. I got tired of pinching my thumb in the loading gate of the pumps and autos. I also like the shorter overall length of the O/U and more "connected" feel of firing a fixed breach gun over an autoloader. The O/U is also the easiest gun to safe on the range. If it's open it's safe, shells in or out, and those around you can clearly see that it is safe. I like O/U and Pumps for hunting. My dentist sponsors a pump only sporting clays shoot every year. It's a blast as a few stations throw three birds at a time. No fancy specialized guns, just a bunch of guys and gals having a blast with their chukar and duck guns.

If I were limited to one shotgun to do every thing from bringing home dinner to shooting trap league, it would be a standard weight, O/U, 28" barreled, entry level field gun with interchangeable chokes. Better yet, an entry level sporting clays gun. It would be a Beretta, Browning, Weatherby, or other quality maker, which ever fit me best.

That's my story. You may find a different path. Most good gun clubs will have rental or loaner guns so you can get a good feel for what you like and what fits.

Ed

[wwillson]

Ed,

Great advice and welcome to the board!

All of my experience is field and Trap, so my prospective is limited. It's nice have someone like you on the board with so much diverse shotgunning experience.

Cheers,

Wayne

[BarryinIN]

I shot Trap for a couple of summers when I lived basically around the corner from a Trap club. I wasn't very deep into it, but went through eight or ten guns if that gives you any warning.

Some things I found:

I had to quit because it was screwing up my other shooting. I was mostly a Highpower (rifle) and defensive pistol shooter before. Both require careful sight alignment, concentration on the front sight, and a careful trigger press. Trap shooting is almost the opposite. The gun is pointed, the focus is on the target, and the trigger is "snapped" for lack of a better term.

Many people don't have a problem and can switch back and forth from Trap to other shooting, but I found it hard. I had to make a choice, and Trap was not it.

Weight is your friend. Within practical limits, a heavier gun is better than a light gun. Weight absorbs recoil and helps your swing, especially if a lot of weight is in the barrel.

I showed up the first time with a Winchester 101 single barrel trap I had traded for. I was pretty proud of it, but as Trap guns go, it was light. Later in the night, another shooter walked by, did a double take at my gun and asked "101?"

I said "Yes".

He said "Hurts, don't it?".

Yes it did.

Long barrels are used because they get the weight forward. That keeps your swing going to help you follow through. Stopping the swing at the shot must be the most common mistake, and it's hard to break the habit.

Fit is as important as has been said. Your eye is the rear sight. Gun fit is like a sight setting. If it's off, your sights are off.

And there is the recoil thing. Sometimes it's not the shoulder that gets pounded, but the cheek. It's all in the fit.

With Trap's rising targets, the trick is to have a gun that shoots high. Call it a built-in lead. But, I found I shot better with a field gun. The best score I shot were with a Citori Field and, of all things, a Browning A-5 field gun. You never know. I ended up with a Browning Lightning Sporting Clays, because it gave me a Trap weight gun that "shot flat" as they say.

Over/unders are popular because they are simple and reliable.

Autoloaders are softer shooting, but more complicated.

In the course of a Thursday evening, I'd shoot at least 75 shots, often 100, and sometimes 125. Most of the guys I shot with did that at three clubs: On Thursday night, Friday night, and both Saturday and Sunday. That's a lot of shooting every week, and the guns get a workout.

So do you. Even the lightest load an can hurt after 100 rds in two hours.

You may not need a full choke. You will start at 16 yards (from the trap house), and while some people get on the bird faster than others, you will break the bird at roughly double that distance give or take a few yards. Modified will do for a lot of people if not most. As you get better, however, you will move back and want a tighter choke.

Something to remember is that with the improvement in shotshell wads over the last few decades, plus barrel improvements like backboring and lengthened forcing cones, most gun/shell/choke combinations pattern a lot tighter than they used to. The older guns I started with were choked Mod but would shoot tight full patterns on paper with modern shells.

I guess what I'm saying is: Patterns shot with Full chokes 30 years ago are shot with about an Imp Mod or Mod now. From what I saw, most people's guns were choked too tight than too loose and they weren't very forgiving. When clays are either powdered or missed completely with no chips or bounced birds, it looks like the choke is too tight.