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OK, I do have a thought specific to last weekend’s class that keeps nagging at me. People tend to look at shotguns as simple tools. Point it at something and blow it up. Of all firearms training, shotgun classes have always received the least interest by far, and perhaps that’s a big reason why. During this class I got a text from a friend shortly after lunch. A knowledgeable friend. He asked if I was home yet since “how much can there be to teach about shotguns?”. Wow. Buckshot or slugs for this shot? Slug? OK, now I have to switch because I’m loaded with buckshot. With 870s, there is a technique to do this that works better than others. It doesn’t work with Mossbergs. If using a Rem 1100 or 11-87, I do different steps A, B, and C. Bought a Benelli this year? You can do it an easier way…but that means yet another method where you only do A and C, and they aren’t exactly the same either. No problem you say, you’re using a pump because they are simpler. This is where they shine. Simply hit the release latch to release the pump and open the acti… Remington or Mossberg? The release is in a different place. If you own both, get it right. Got it. No problem. I’m not an idiot, Barry. Now you put a slug into the loading port. Or is loading into the tube easier? Can you do this smoothly every time? No fumbling? The shells hitting the ground every class is an answer to that. Wait, where did you get that slug you’re about to load? From a sidesaddle? Or do you use a butt cuff? Chest rig? Belt carrier? Will you have time to put that chest or belt rig on when you really need the shotgun? Oh, you used a sidesaddle? OK, did you carry those rounds up or down? And did you pass the slug over the top or underneath to load? How did you hold the shell? Fine, you got it switched over. Time to take the shot. Are you using sights or bead? Why? Which kind of sights? Why? Or an optic? Why? Do your slugs hit to the same place as the center of your buckshot pattern? Do you really know for sure? OK, it’s a little different. Most are. What direction? Low and left, alright. This shot is twice as far as you are zeroed, so where do you hold? Remember, you are already holding off due to a POI change with slugs anyway. Crap! Maybe I should load all-slugs instead anyway, so I have half as much to keep up with? And down another rabbit hole we go. That’s just from switching to slugs for one shot. One little exercise.
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I was in a shotgun class this weekend. As mentioned in the previous post, guns choked to the surprise of their owners. Pumps and autos both. Practice malfunction clearing. I’ve heard people say they have had X number of rounds through their gun so they don’t waste their time. Guess who is going to be most surprised when it happens.
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JosephShosy joined the community
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Winchester Ranger T-Series Ammo
BarryinIN replied to BlueOvalFitter's topic in Ammunition- Centerfire
I witnessed some gel testing this weekend. Winchester Ranger 9mm 127 +P+ was the first round tested. Gun used was a Glock 26. It penetrated right to the end of the 18” block, and the bullet could’ve been used in an ad. Federal 9mm 124 HST std pressure did the same. Speer 38 Spl +P 135 Gold Dot from a 2” S&W went maybe 16” and also could’ve been used for a picture. I donated a round of GA Arms full power .38 Wadcutter that has been receiving some attention lately. It penetrated the block and had only a slight riveting. The key with this ammunition is it penetrates well, but also in a pretty straight line. An interesting thing to me was the rounds that penetrated the 18 gel block, JUST penetrated the gel block. The bullets were always found on top of the plastic barrel the block was on, or on the ground next to it. A pair of jeans was used to make the initial denim layers, with the excess draped over the back. Bullets would get through the gel, then have so little left they were stopped by that denim and dropped. The only thing that zipped through and kept going into the berm was some .357 158 XTP. -
These classes are held all over the country. Most are free. Check the Stop the Bleed website. Many hospitals, county health departments, fire departments, etc put them on, so check with them. This is not just a “gun thing”. You are perhaps as likely to encounter a serious bleeding situation than a need for CPR. A class is only 60-90 minutes of your time.
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I plan for this to be a continuing series of posts, with the plan of sharing one main point or observation from each class taken. Feel free to add, and don’t stop at one item per class. My first observation: Guns (and people) malfunction more in a class than in practice. And in turn, according those who have been there, it happens even more in life or death situations. I had a Close Quarters Pistol class last weekend, and was reminded of this fact. People had a little trouble here and there with guns, including me, that left them saying “That never happened before”. A little stress, a little shooting leading to some light crud or low lubrication as the day wore on, and things happen. I’m guessing most people make sure their guns are clean and lubed before class. But if you someday get caught with a need to use it, I doubt the gun got fresh lube the day before. Malfunctions happen. Be ready. Operator failures happen. Be ready for that also. Expect more problems when it’s all for real.
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This Stop The Bleed class teaches you simple actions to stop life-threatening blood loss, enabling you to immediately help save a life. Description The course combines lecture and hands-on skills training. In it, you’ll learn how to: Recognize life-threatening bleeding Apply direct pressure to wounds Pack a wound Apply a tourniquet You don’t need any prior medical knowledge or training to take the course. The one-time course provides you with the knowledge and skills to help save a life. All age groups can attend. Everyone receives a tourniquet, gauze, towel, rubber gloves, Sharpie, and a certificate at the end of the course. Held at the Danville Conservation Club clubhouse, 855 Sycamore Lane, Danville IN, 46123 Thursday, November 7, 2024 Stop The Bleed program website: https://www.stopthebleed.org/about-us/ Signup: https://m.signupgenius.com/#!/showSignUp/904094CA5A82DAAF58-51995439-stop
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I heard that Phil Spangenberger passed away yesterday. If you don’t recognize the name, you might recognize the face. If not, you’ve probably seen his work, since he was a technical advisor for some movies and a lot of TV shows. I’ve seen his name in the credits of several History Channel shows over the years. He was Cowboy Action Shooting before there was CAS. He had his own one-man Wild West show in the early 70s, plus he started Red River Outfitters historical clothing and gear sales, and became Guns & Ammo’s black powder editor around that same time. And the man looked the same in recent pictures as he did then. His work will be missed.
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The Challenge requires ten-shot groups. I haven’t attempted any ten-shot groups at all with the iron-sighted .30-30 yet, and don’t have any 1 MOA five-shot groups either (but close). I do have enough sub-2 MOA 5-shot groups to say I’ll probably make a .30-30 entry next year just for the hell of it. I am pretty sure I’ll try it with my Sako .243 also. That’s an MADL rifle. If I have a qualifying group from it, I can play around with the lever-cranker and some other eccentric entry. And the third goofball rifle? I don’t know. Maybe I should shop for something really odd.
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This is what lead ammo bans bring forth. https://www.americanhunter.org/content/review-winchester-21-sharp/ I almost had to check the calendar to see if it was April again. Oh well, it will either sell enough in CA to be called a success or it will be a neat item for cartridge collectors later.
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A class I had been looking forward to for months was canceled due to the instructor being recalled to active duty with the USAF. This was a revolver class, which aren’t easy to come by, so I was a sad puppy to lose it. Another class I wanted to attend was to be held tomorrow, but was cancelled due to lack of students. This was a one-day shotgun class. Defensive shotgun classes can also be hard to find, so I was disappointed to lose that opportunity. I'm signed up for a Close Quarters handgun class in October. Last week I talked to the guy who arranged to host this class, and he tells me that only four people have signed up so far. It is likely to be cancelled also if that doesn’t improve quickly. I’m also signed up for another shotgun class in October. This one is by a local instructor who is excellent but probably not known outside the immediate area. It filled up, and filled quickly. Thats a mix of odd and amusing to me because tomorrow’s cancelled shotgun class was to be done by a former Magpul instructor who has been written up in some magazines and has videos and interviews online. While the somewhat “known” instructor’s class was canceled due to lack of interest, the class by the local guy filled up pretty quick. Go figure. But that’s the only class I’ve heard of lately that filled easily. Overall, there is a bad trend in the works. The class that was canceled because the instructor was called up is a different situation, but I’m seeing a lot of classes being cancelled due to low numbers. My friend hosting the QC pistol class hosts a few other classes. He said he’s been having trouble meeting the minimums all year. Not just filling classes, but meeting the minimums. The little NRA Basic Pistol classes I do at our gun club aren’t on the same level as what I’ve been discussing, but I expect to have no more than two people in each of them. I don’t mind; I’ll do it with one student, but that’s how it is. It didn’t only start this year. I took a class last year put on by another local instructor who teaches at the state police academy. There were only three of us in it, and I was a late signup. The downward trend started well before that. I’ve been seeing it for maybe five years. I think we’ve become saturated with instructors and classes. And sad to say, many instructors are “instructors”: people who have taken enough classes to feel they know enough to teach. Knowing some info doesn’t make one a teacher, and it sure doesn’t give one the ability to diagnose shooter problems. That is a great skill, if not a gift. Luckily, while there are plenty of these types, they seem to be the exception. It’s just that there are so many instructors, schools, and classes they are easier to see. There are SO MANY classes now! Saturation. I think we are going to look back on this as a high point for students as far as training availability. For most of my life, if you wanted training you had to go to one of two or three schools. Those were your only choices. Things had started to get better by the late 90s. We were seeing traveling trainers holding classes around the country. Since 9/11, demand for training jumped. A lot of the well-known trainers were basically hired full-time by .mil and .gov agencies, but that vacuum didn’t last. It was filled beyond overflowing by new trainers and schools popping up, happening then and soon after. That bubble is bursting now. We’ve still got all those trainers and schools, and the earlier ones are back in full public circulation, but student interest has dropped. In a way, that’s understandable with the sheer numbers of classes offered. It seems like everyone teaches something. On the other hand, look at how many new gun buyers we’ve had in the last few years. Millions. If you look at that, the demand for training should still be at least as high as ever. But it’s not. Within a couple of years, I think there will be a fraction of the training opportunities available. Not long after, a lot of us will be looking back on the present and wishing we had taken advantage of it when we could’ve. I’ve preached on here before the benefits of training. A lesson or two from a good class more than pays for itself in ammo saved by not doing things wrong. But I’ll say it again: Go. Go now while you have the chance. Now is a perfect time. There are SO many classes out there. I know it may not seem easy to go, but in the future if there are only 20% as many classes around as the present, things now will look pretty good. I know ammo is not as cheap as it was, and never will be, but it’s probably as good as it’s going to get right now. Plus it’s mostly available. I’ll tell you something else. It’s a shame for the schools and instructors, but it’s a great time on the student end of things. With fewer classmates, you get more attention, more lessons, more shooting, and more value. I hate to say it, but doom and gloom for the training industry is good for us. For now.
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My plans are shaping up for next year's entries. First up is a .30-30 lever action. Nope, they aren't known for making little groups on paper, and that's exactly why I'm going to give it a go. Why? Why not? I plan to do some testing with single-loaded match BTHP bullets and see where that takes me. The 1-10" twist should handle any .30 bullet I have. Just goofing around, I have seen that empty case weight of the .30-30 varies quite a bit. Ten grains variance, even among the same manufacturer, is common. Its even more when checked across the selection of range pickup brass I have. That's a lot of difference in that smallish case. If a guy were to use brass that was even somewhat uniformed... I use L.E. Wilson chamber-type seating dies in a couple of cartridges to get the best accuracy. Used with an arbor press instead of the typical reloading press, they seat bullets with reduced runout. They aren't made in anywhere near every caliber, so I was surprised to see they made them for the .30-30. I was amused. Then I saw Midway USA had them in stock. I don't know why. Oh look, they are on sale for $38.62. Mine will be here in a day or so.
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I was in the local gun shop this week and noticed they were down to one new S&W in .30SC. They either sold the other one or removed it from the counter in shame. One sold in 2.5 years. It’s on fire!
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Oh yeah, I got all three entries submitted for this year. My final entry was with a mild-mannered paper-puncher, a 7.5 pound .375 H&H Magnum. Ten rounds from the bench, pretty fun! I only have the factory iron sights on it now, so I shot at 50 yards. Again, I didn't make the 1 MOA cut, but didn't much care after getting one on the board. I had fun using a rifle that was way off the norm yet solidly within the letter and spirit of the rules. EDIT: I got curious about recoil and ran some numbers. Recoil impulse 4.87 lbs-sec Recoil velocity 20.9 fps Recoil impulse energy 50.94 ft-lb For comparison, I had considered using my Marlin .45-70. The numbers for it would be: 3.53 15.14 26.73 That's taking the easy way!
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Second entry made today. I hit the goal with the first rifle, so now I’m playing. My buddy who got me doing this is no fan of Jeff Cooper or the Scout Rifle concept, so I used my Scout rifle, complete with 2.5X Scout Scope. I wanted to use a hunting load to stay in the spirit of the competition. That was a problem because I only had enough of one bullet to use. So it was settled; the 180 soft point Sierra was my choice! I didn’t make 1 MOA, but feel ok about it considering the ammo and 2.5X scope. I shot a 1.642 MOA ten-shot group. I had my buddy nervous for a bit, so it’s a win.
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Can you take a hunting-type rifle to the range, pull it out of it’s case, lay it across a sandbag, and shoot a ten-round group under 1 MOA? That’s the question asked by YouTubers “Bloke on the Range” and “Polenar Tactical”. They are calling out all the Fudds who stand around the range and scoff at everyone else’s rifles and say things like: “Shewwwwt. I’ve got me a Merlin thutty thutty that’ll do that, and it only cost me 80 bucks when I was a kid. It’ll shoot a minnit of angle all day long!”. Bloke and Polenar simply say: “Show us.” The challenge is as simple as I described in my opening: Throw a rifle on the bench and bang out ten rounds at 50 yards minimum. Video it, tell us a little about it, measure the group with your choice of group measuring app, post the video to YouTube, and notify them. Everyone is pretty certain that a $9,000 Accuracy International with a $4,000 scope should do it without much effort, but that’s not the idea. They want to see if a Fudd’s pride and joy will do as so many claim. Use a hunting-type rifle. Weight limit 10.5 pounds ready to shoot. The cheaper the rifle and scope, the better. If you try it and don’t make 1 MOA, send it in anyway for the data. Interested? Sounds easy? Give it a try. Rules and instructions are here: https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/12K7e1G2tEi9_Q9YDo0CyuTtW3ufhOf1NjhI0HInDQeM/mobilebasic My regular shooting buddy has been playing around at this for a month or so this summer, and that’s what got me interested. He followed the spirit of the challenge and got out his late father’s old Remington 722 in .222 Rem caliber, with the Weaver K6 that’s been on it for decades. He even loaded some ammo on his dad’s old Lee Loader, and replicated pop’s window sill groundhog shooting position when he shot his group for the challenge. He didn’t crack 1 MOA with it, but I sure thought the attempt was pretty neat. And with that, he drew me in. I’ve made one entry using a rifle I was pretty confident could meet the challenge*. I made it, and now that I’m in, I want to do it again using something more challenging; something more in the spirit of things. My next two possibilities are a Steyr Scout and a CZ527 carbine. The Scout Scout .308 is one light rifle to be shooting ten-round groups with. It weighs 7lbs, 13 oz scoped and slung, with a variety of survival and cleaning items stored in the storage compartments, plus a spare loaded five round magazine stored in the stock. I’m doing a lot of thinking about whether to stay with the 2.5X Scout scope or giving myself some help by using something more conventional. And bigger. So far, I’m leaning toward keeping the Scout a Scout. Using the CZ527 would be making things harder than they need to be. It is pretty tiny, so it has to be lighter than the Scout. It’s also chambered for 7.62x39, which isn’t known for precision. It’s usual scope is a Leupold 2.5X fixed power. I am going to give myself some help by swapping on something a little bigger. The trigger on it is excellent, though. Ammo for the CZ? I have 19 rounds of brass I’ve scrounged up along the way. I loaded them with a load chosen because I had the powder, so I now have enough to zero after the scope swap and make a run at it. Or, I have some Wolf, Brown Bear and Silver Bear FMJ, SP, and HP varieties that I bought for $2.99/20 rd box. We'll see if I get a day this week when it isn’t crazy hot and humid to give them a try. I’m sure this will be miserable, so there’s no sense in making it hot and miserable. ——————————————— *What did I use? My buddy said he hadn’t seen a video of anyone using a magnum caliber rifle and suggested I use my .300 Win Mag. I have what’s sort of a sleeper: a Steyr SafeBolt .300 WinMag I bought off Gunbroker last year. I took a gamble when I bought it because there was next to no info in the listing. It also looked like it would sell for a price too good to be true. That alone made me nervous. “What am I missing here” was all I could think. I got it for $540. As it turns out, it makes tidy little five-shot groups, and most importantly, the whole situation made my buddy jealous. Since I felt bad for using a fancy brand of Steyr, I tried to level things out by using a scope I bought used for $230, mounted in Weaver rings. And I shot at 200 yards… because it’s a magnum.
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The .45 Colt chambering was announced Tuesday (7/2/24) morning. S&W says they are announcing something new each Tuesday for six weeks, so maybe the .357 will be around soon also. I forgot to mention I looked an 1854 over a while back. I was ho-hum over the initial announcement, but got a little interested when looking it over. It looked well put together, and the action was very smooth.
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I was in the local gun shop today…er, yesterday… and mentioned I’d like to get another UC revolver, but in .32 Mag. The owner turned around and rummaged in the detritus along the long gun display rack, turned back anround, and handed me a S&W 431PD. Hmm, look at that. These were made around 20 years ago for a short period of time- maybe under two years. It’s an Airweight J-frame with the standard exposed hammer in a six-shot .32 H&R Magnum. It was very odd that he would have one. But now I have one.
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Did he use Bullseye because that sounded more accurate?
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This kind of idiocy is what makes guns blow up in people's faces. I know a guy who loaded all of his 30-06 cases level full with powder, then inserted the projectiles. Some old guy told him that's it's safe and easier to do it that way. He was a kid and didn't know better. He's very lucky he never got a face full of hot gas and metal.
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Every area of shooting has its share of myths that won’t die. It seems to me the two most myth-filled areas are Bullet Casting and Muzzleloading. I’m not sure why that is They do share some things in common. I keep coming back to the fact that both things were on life support for several decades before waking up again. I’d say both had a near-death experience from very roughly 1900 to 1960. I can’t quite pinpoint the precise reason, but I feel this has something to do with it. What prompted this post was hearing something last weekend I hadn’t heard in a while. ”You can’t overload a muzzleloader because the extra powder gets blown out of the barrel.” Please Lord, help me. Making it worse was I heard tha at a 4-H shoot. This was taught to the kids. I don’t usually get involved with the Muzzleloader program because it’s shot the same day and time as Rifle and Pistol, which is what I’m doing. We had a Muzzleloader-only day for the Advanced group of kids last Saturday, so I got to see and hear what’s being taught to them. The lead ML instructor told them this, then backed it up with another thing I’ve heard: That this is proven by shooting a muzzleloader over snow, where you can see the unburned powder on the snow strung out towards the target. Again Lord, please, hold me back. You will see SOMETHING on the snow, and it’s probably black granules, but very little of it is unburned powder. It’s likely almost all powder that has been burned. It’s the same crud that’s fouling the barrel after each shot. Don’t believe me? Shoot over a tarp so you can collect these granules, then sweep them into a pile and try to light them. Good luck. Unburned black powder will light right off in a smoky mess. This stuff won’t.
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Earlier today 6/9, I believe, after a long heart illness.
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It took longer than I expected, but I sent the first shots through the Old Army on Saturday. It was muzzleloader day for the 4-H kids, and it made an appearance. I wish I could report group sizes, but every shot went on or at steel. This was the first time I've cleaned a stainless steel BP gun, and it was EASY.
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I held out until June. June 4th. I got a 642UC today. I haven’t shot it yet, but have dry-fired it a few hundred times. The improved action is… well… If they hadn’t told me it had been improved I wouldn’t know it. But then, I am comparing it to the S&W 442 I’ve been carrying and shooting since 1997, so I guess that one has been smoothed up some from use. The sights are a lot better. Sooo much better. The round front in a U rear may not be precise, but they are VISIBLE and snap right into alignment. The grips are really nice. I have several VZ grip-equipped guns but these are special, with them reaching higher up the back. Surprisingly hand-filling, it’s hard to believe you’re holding a J frame.
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The LCR 9 is now accompanied by an LCR 22.
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We attacked the berm repairs today. The rebuild of the rebuild. We tried the least destructive method first, and it looks like it will work. We used a Kubota tractor to pull the horizontal poles out from the end walls. Then with the loader and backhoe, dug dirt out only on each end where it pushed against those walls. This gave us room to work to re-set the posts. They are all in concrete now. We used all the quickcrete we had, and are getting at least that much more. Each post will have 400 lbs or more of concrete hanging on the bottom, so hopefully they will stay put this time.