What BOLT action .308 should I get?

[Pablo]

What are your thoughts on this:

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/models/

Model: 11 Lightweight Hunter

Seems like it's light and frill free.

Vs.

Model: 10 FCM Scout

Thoughts...........

[G-MAN]

Weatherby Vanguard.

[RLH70]

You can not go wrong with a Savage!

[BarryinIN]

I like the Lwt Hunter. I've never seen that model before.

I'm not sure about the holes in the forend, but I like the rest.

If they really did get it to 5.5 lbs, that's pretty impressive. It's hard to imagine it is that light, though.

I like the Scout concept. I would suggest anyone looking at any of the Scout rifles out there go to Father Frog's (John Schaefer) site on Scout rifles. He covers the general concept, and details specific rifles (nothing on the Ruger yet that I saw), and passes along some useful tips and tricks.

http://www.steyrscout.org/project.htm

The Savage Scout is a little heavier than the Steyr, it holds one less round, and lacks some other details of the Steyr. It also costs about half what the Steyr costs. But we are comparing a purpose-designed rifle to one adapted using off-the-shelf parts. That Savage got so close without a major redesign is pretty good.

As you can read on Fr Frog's pages, early Savage Scouts had some problems varying from inconvenient to not good, but Savage seems to have fixed those and also made improvements to the model along the way.

I tend to look at the Savage Scout and see little things that would have helped it greatly for around $100 increase in cost. I miss the fact that another $100 would keep many from buying it, and it can't be that big a seller to start with, so I need to remember to be glad they make it at all. They could have dropped the model a long time ago and hardly noticed it in their bottom line.

Savage does seem to have a better grasp of the Scout concept than Ruger. Although, I don't know why Savage lists the Scout under "Law Enforcement Series". The Scout concept was conceived as a general purpose, light, and handy hunting rifle. When makers drift from that, they goof it up.

I have had hit and miss luck with Ruger 77s and accuracy, but still like the action. The triggers sometimes need a little help, but their newer trigger system might have helped that. I like the action design and really like the scope rings and wish all makers had a system similar to it or Sako's. Accuracy seems to be really good or just OK in my experience, which is odd and I can't explain it.

If getting a new Ruger 77, I'd get a plain old 77 Hawkeye or All Weather.

I like the Winchester M70 design best of the big name bolt actions. Before Winchester shut down for a while, they had a few variations and the one that was sort of a cross between pre-64 and post-64 called the Classic was my favorite. If they ever get going again to the point they put some in the shelves that aren't priced higher than an original pre-64 or chambered in a WSSM cartridge, I'll try to get one. I never should have traded off the Classic action .375 H&H I had, and wouldn't have if I had known they were going to quit for a few years. But it made two .375s I owned when it's hard to justify any.

The Remington 700 is OK and everything, and I've had four, I think. They are nice and smooth and usually have good triggers and shoot well. Remington just kind of makes me uncomfortable for some reason. Once they started filling up WalMarts with guns 20 years or so ago, I guess it made a cheap impression on me whether deserved or not.

At one time I might have laughed at the suggestion of a Weatherby Vanguard, but not anymore. The action and barrel is the Howa 1500 that has been sold for years by everyone from Mossberg to Smith & Wesson, including Howa itself, and some of those could be bought for a lot less than others. At one time, it was the Weatherby at the high end and Howa brand at the low end, even with synthetic stocks that looked about the same. The Vanguard cost less than a MkV Weatherby, but more than the same Howa barreled action sold by others. It was humorous to hear someone brag about their Weatherby (Vanguard) while putting down other rifles that were mechanically the same. They only differed in wood grain and the letters stamped on barrel.

But then, several years ago Weatherby started advertising "Weatherby accuracy for $xxx", and sure enough, the Vanguard cost less than even a Howa.

What was once a joke became a shrewd buy. If the Vanguard sold for exactly the same as a Howa 1500, why would anyone choose the Howa? And the Vanguard looks to me to be selling for less.

But as I said in the other thread, my favorite bolt action is my Steyr Scout. It shoots as well or better than my AR10 weighing twice as much, is more consistent than anything I've ever had, is as handy as a .22, and handles as fast as anything and faster than most.

It costs more than most, but everything about it is done differently. The bolt locks into the barrel instead of the receiver (similar to an AR) so the receiver can be light aluminum alloy. The safety is in my favorite location (tang) and is one of the "safest safeties" I know of because of how it locks the entire bolt. The trigger is wonderful.

It truly is a general purpose rifle, as Jeff Cooper planned. I could get rid of several rifles and do the same things as well or better with the Scout. It might cost as much as two regular rifles, but if it can replace four or more, the cost seems more affordable.

The same basic action is used in the SBS series, which is a more conventional type rifle and costs a lot less. CDNN had several variations on closeout for a while.

My only complaints about the Steyr Scout are a stiff to open storage compartment door in the stock (most rifles don't have the compartment at all) that I "fixed" by tying a string "handle" on; and the action's bolt head guide. This guide is a slotted synthetic ring that sits between the barrel and action where the bolt locks into place to seal out crud from getting into this recess. This ring is free to turn when the bolt closes. It can also be bumped and turned by an empty chamber safety flag...then the bolt won't close until you turn it back. The only time this is a problem is at a range requiring these flags (I usually use them anyway). It wouldn't be a problem when hunting, and might be worth having then to keep that area clear of debris.

[Pablo]

It really is 5.5 lbs. I like the Scout concept - the Steyr is just too expensive for this niche for me.

Weatherby Vanguard is nice.

The new Savage is in the lead so far, though.

[BarryinIN]

If it's 5.5 lbs, that's amazing. The Steyr doesn't quite hit that when empty and unscoped and it was designed from the ground up to be light, with an alum receiver, small diameter bolt, and really thin barrel that's fluted besides. The only bolt action I know in the 5.5 lb range (besides semi customs like Ultra Light Arms) is the Ruger 77/44 .44 Magnum. It is of course a different animal and gets there by having a relatively tiny action and short barrel with a big bore cutting through it.

I see Savage milled lightening cuts in the receiver, and I'd like to see what else they did. The Savage action isn't the lightest. They should use that lightened action on their Scout. That would be neat.

Steyr Scouts can be found at reasonable prices, but only if one can wait to shop around long enough to find one at a deal. There was a 7mm-08 one on Gunbroker recently for the mid 1100s. That was the least I've seen in a while but have seen less in the last couple of years.

After I got mine, I seldom shoot my custom Mauser .308 or AR10 .308, and traded off my Winchester 100 in .308. It replaced $2200+ in .308 rifles, so if you look at it that way- It was cheap!

[BarryinIN]

Come to think of it, if you can find a nice Winchester 100, it might solve all your needs.

It's a semiauto with wood and polished bluing. I think most shoot pretty well. It uses a detachable box magazine (4 rounds) and there was an aftermarket "semi-hi-cap" seven round magazine made by a company called Coyler. Seven rounds may not sound like much compared to 20 or 30, but with one in the chamber, it matches the Garand. A Winchester 100 could serve dual duty as a nice .308 sporter and as a semiauto defense gun.

They don't sell for all that much. They sit on the rack forever at $400 and usually sell for less.

The lever action sister (model 88) brings a lot of money, so people pass the 100 over.

The thing I liked best about mine was the stock design. Snap it to the shoulder and the scope was on target. A lot of rifles are close that way, but that one was right there. The difference is small, but really noticeable when you get it.

[G-MAN]

It really is 5.5 lbs. I like the Scout concept - the Steyr is just too expensive for this niche for me.

Weatherby Vanguard is nice.

The new Savage is in the lead so far, though.

Go to a gun shop and handle both before you choose. I think you will be impressed with the Weatherby.

[Pablo]

Steyr Scouts can be found at reasonable prices, but only if one can wait to shop around long enough to find one at a deal. There was a 7mm-08 one on Gunbroker recently for the mid 1100s. That was the least I've seen in a while but have seen less in the last couple of years.

After I got mine, I seldom shoot my custom Mauser .308 or AR10 .308, and traded off my Winchester 100 in .308. It replaced $2200+ in .308 rifles, so if you look at it that way- It was cheap!

Never seen on less than $1500. I do see them listed for $1700 locally and they sit.

[BarryinIN]

The more conventional models with the same (SBS) action, like the Pro Hunter, go for quite a bit less.

I got my Scout used for a price so low I'm almost afraid to say. . That one is still the cheapest I've seen one for, but have seen three I can remember in the 1100-1200 range since. So maybe once a year a good deal shows up.

Every now and then, one will appear for less, but in a caliber other than .308.

If I were seriously looking to buy another, I would keep an eye on the classifieds here:

http://www.scoutrifle.org/index.php?www

Or better, post a WTB ad there.

The owner of that site is Andy Langlois, who runs Andy's Leather (Ching Slings and such). http://andysleather.com/ He found my Steyr for me. I had bought slings from him before and was ordering another when I asked if he happened to know of any Steyr Scouts for sale. He emailed me by the end of the day with the info on the one I got. So he hears things.

[Pablo]

OK Savage Lightweight Hunter on the way. Should have it by Friday, maybe early next week. I'll do some posts about it, once I get a scope and have it mounted.

[BarryinIN]

Cool. That's a good looking rifle.

[RLH70]

Good choice, should be a tack driver, every Savage I own is.

[Pablo]

Finally got some free time to go pick up my Savage.

Guys - it really is that light. I think I have heavier hand guns. What a sweet feel. If you want a heavy, HD .308 bolt - this isn't it. I can see carrying this on long hunts.

[BarryinIN]

Light is nice. You can probably see why I make such a fuss about the Ruger Scout being heavier than the Steyr. "But it's only by a pound or so!" is what I hear in return. Yeah, but when that "pound or so" (closer to two) makes it 20-25% heavier, it's a significant pound or so.

Glad you like it. It looks really nice. I was digging through some things yesterday and saw an American Rifleman with that rifle named on the cover, and am going to go back and have a look.

[Pablo]

I believe the article in in the latest issue.

I just ordered the scope mounts from Optics Planet. Hope they arrive before or on Thursday. And the scope weighs 12 oz. Add the weight of the mounts.....

[Pablo]

FINALLY got to shoot the Savage today.

Seemed to run OK. No hiccups. I was on paper, first shot. A tad high and left. A little tweeking and I was high right. Not used to adjusting a scope so it took me a box of ammo to dial it in. OK OK I was plinking. The groups were not some touching miracle shots, but not so bad.

For such a light gun, the recoil was not bad at all.

[BarryinIN]

Cool. Glad you got to shoot it, and it did OK.

I used to traditionally shoot every Thanksgiving. Then it became more like the day after. And this year it looks like it will be at least two days after.