dnewton3

I chose a service from OR called Tornado Technologies. The barrel is not back yet, but their customer service is good. They replied to my email and phone calls within a reasonable time; less than one day! The barrel is already on it's way back, after only being gone for two weeks. I'll report on the quality of the work after I get it.

Yet another update: This gun rocks. We have almost 6k rounds through it (put almost 1k rounds just this past weekend!). The FTFs are almost non-existent (probably more ammo than gun anyway). The breakdown and cleaning are super simple. This alone beats a Marlin Mdl 60 or 10/22 any day of the week! As much as we shoot, and subsequently clean, this wins hands down.

Wayne - kudos to you for turning what could have been a traumatic experience into a pleasure! Will she shoot again? Who knows. But at least she didn't go away with negative connotations of the sport. People that have bad experiences early in life rarely ever change their minds about the topic. I see the same thing happen all the time to motorcyclists and their passengers. Riders will scare the poo out of their passengers, then wonder why people curse the very sight of motorcycles. I have turned some people away from the shooting sport because I know they do not have the maturity to deal with all the correct decisions one must make. My fear is that someone will blame me for a bad experience (or worse, an accident). When I introduce someone to the sport, it is always a day long exercise in the mental and phsyical experience. I want people to be non-haters, even if they do not ultimately decide to partake in the sport. Fear of the unknown, and bad personal experience, are the major deterrents in anti-gun people. Keep up the positve work!

Another update. Nothing but compliments for the S&W M&P .22lr weapon! We've probably put 3k rounds through it over the past two months. It cycles flawlessly. The rare occastion of not cycling is attributed to your typical rimfire causes; low charge, poor quality round, etc. I have a friend who has a KelTec SU-22 and it's nice as well, but for the extra $100, even he admits likes the S&W. One note; I did pay an extra $50 for the factory threaded barrell with the factor flash suppressor. If I had to do it over, I would have forgone this option. The only reason I wanted it was to try to shoot it with my sound supporessor installed. But the sub-sonic ammo simply does not have the ompf to cycle the action, so using it is worthless and too much of a pain. Therefore, I would have had just as much fun with the non-threaded version, and saved the money. But that is not the weapons fault. It clearly states in the owner's manual that the use of ANY sub-sonic ammo is not advised. This weapon simply is not designed to function with such low pressures; it won't cycle reliably. It really does not shoot any straighter than my Marlin mdl 60, and those things are very reasonable price wise. But for those that want a "black gun" for the sake of joy, I cannot commend the S&W any more than the pure joy it is to shoot. Maintenance is also pure simple joy. While a 10/22 or Marlin have to be unscrewed and are somewhat of a pain to get the bolt out, the M&P is literally as simple as an AR, after which it is styled. The pins that hold the upper receiver to the lower have captive pins, so you just push the rear pin sideways, tip up the receiver, and pull out the bolt assembly. Done. Brush and swab, wipe and lube, and reassemble. VERY easy. Kudo's to S&W on this one; I am pleased that I spent the extra money on it over it's competitors.

Thanks for the update Bob; I'll check it out.

It did not come with the accutrigger; wish it had. The stock trigger is crisp, but a bit too firm. Then again, don't know that I can expect too much for $171 out the door, including the 3x9 scope! Quite a bargin. As long as it's accurate, I'll be happy. I broke the barrel in this weekend; lots of cleaning and copious amounts of patches. Broke it down afterward and pulled the barrel out (pinned), and it goes to the machinist this morning via the mail. Found a place in OR I'm going to try; tornado-technologies. They specifically had my barrel listed as one that they are set up for. They also offer free return shipping for LEOs, so I just couldn't turn that down. I'll update when it returns.

Update: Purchased a new Savage Mk II in 22lr today at Dicks for $171 out the door (on special). Nice gun. Absolutely beautiful stock; one of the nicest I've seen in a store bought mass-merchandise place in a LONG time. Also came with a 3x9 scope. Going to break in the barrell soon, then I'll see how it shoots. After that, it's off to the machine shop to get the barrell threaded for the suppressor. Now, if only the price of 22lr would come down and the availability go back up ...

Way too many downsides for anyone but the gun-control zealots. I don't wear a watch. I will NOT have an implant. Just how many combinations of watches/guns would you have to wear for all the weapons I own? And, if it's like everything else electronic, it will fail when you need it most. They can KMA if they think I'll be submitting to this.

That is who I used the last time! Their quality of workmanship is outstanding. Their customer serivce sucked. The wait was excrutiating. And they never replied to any emails or phones messages until I got the BBB involved.

I long ago gave up trying to make sense of some of the [censored] in movies, and just enjoy them for the entertainment they are. Hollywood has long believed that they know better than the rest of us; it must be cozy in that little world of theirs. From guns, to politics, to cars, (and the list goes on), they make stuff up, rather than using facts to support their story line. Ever count up the number of shots Hollywood can get out of a handgun before a reload? The bottomless magazinzes are astounding; wish I had one. That's fine; because as I said, it's supposed to be entertainment. Unfortunatly, the general public easily falls prey to this type of "information".

Anyone have good success with barrel threading service that would be enough for a recommendation? I used a company in UT last year, and the quality of the work was outstanding, but the wait and customer service was poor; I had to get the BBB involved. Ultimately was resolved, but I'd rather not go back to them at this point, simply due to the lack of expidiency.

ATI has a nice stock (got mine right through Ruger when they had an online sale). Mine is the folding/telescoping model. It fits both the Mini-14 and Mini-30 (although a small amount of modifying is needed for the flared mag well of the mini-30). I put mine on my -30. I like the look of what you have now. But since this is your WTSHTF gun, perhaps a bit more tactical might be in order.

Very nice, G.

I had a Sig P226 in while in college. The quality of the Sig is simply outstanding. I got rid of it, though, because I don't care for a DA to SA system. It was one very accurate, well made weapon, however!

For those of you in Indiana, there are some pro-gun Bills entering the State Legislature. You might want to contact your State Congressmen and Women, and express your opinions. THESE ARE PROPOSED INDIANA STATE LAWS, NOT FEDERAL LAWS. HB 1065 – prohibits State and/or local governmental confiscation of firearms in times of declared disaster (such as what happened in Louisianna after Katrina) HB 1068 – prohibits public access to personal information in gun permits, and prohibits the dissemination of such information publically. (the local newspaper in Bloomington is accessing personal information such as your name, address, etc that is used in gun permit applications, and publically printing the information) SB 25 – prohibits the firing/discipline of employees who otherwise legally own and want to possess firearms in the parking lots of their places of employment. (This is a benefit to anyone who hunts before or after work, or simply wants to excercise his/her right to carry to and from work, but cannot possess in the "parking lot" without fear of retribution). I'm not sure we should start a debate on the merrits of such topics here on this site. I am merely posting this up so that Indiana residents can be aware of the pending legislation, and contant their Congressmen to express their opinions.

Well, anything that is factory threaded would save me time/money on getting an alternative threaded, however after checking gunbroker, they sure do seem to be a bit high in price. Also, realize that the .22lr subsonic ammo is not exactly known for it's incredible accuracy. To have a weapon that is ultra accurate, and then put in cheap sub-sonic ammo makes little sense to me. That is why I has looking at a decent $250 gun, or less. I am trying to find a reliable gun that is a good match for the ammo and use with a suppressor. My primary purpose for this rig would be to put the suppressor on it for sub-sonic plinking and pest control. It doesn't need to be sub-MOA accurate, because the ammo would never be capable of such. I suspect the ammo is perhaps 2-MOA on its best day.

Well, it seems as though you both have reasonable objections to my suggestion. And truly, I can see your point in both scenarios. As I said, we're all "right" for our own applications. That in mind, iIf you can get your WTSHTF weapon properly outfitted so that it functions as needed, when needed, without failure, that is all that matters.

OK - my next purchase is likely to be a bolt-action .22lr and I'm looking for suggestions. Let me be specific in my wants. First, I don't want to spend too much money; $250 is the limit for this one (not including accessories). I will always consider buying used, but I like to know the weapon's history, so at times I'll buy new to assure the known condition. Second, I want a reasonably accurate weapon, but it does not have to be ultra-uber-accurate, as I'm intending to shoot bulk .22 ammo and sub-sonic ammo. Third, on the topic of sub-sonic ammo, I want a reliable feeder and extractor. Lastly, ease of barrel removal and installation. I am going to have the end threaded for my suppressor. Sub-sonic .22lr ammo simply is not super reliable in a semi-auto weapon, so I'm going to build up a bolt action for reliability. I don't want some press-fit and pinned barrel; I need to be able to remove it to send it out for threading. So, here are my options that I've seen with some regularity at my local gun stores: Marlin model 925, Savage with accu-trigger (forgot the model), and a Ruger 77/22. I have a Marlin .22 Win-mag that I like a lot, but that one is very old and may not be comparable to what they produce today. I do know that the Ruger barrel is easy to remove (similar to the 10/22). I know nothing about the Savage at all. Does anyone know of the pros/cons to these weapons? I've not had a lot of experience with bolt action .22's. Both facts and opinions are welcome.

Here's my update. Got to shoot the M&P .22 over the weekend. Put about 600 rounds through it. A few notes. Very high quality and well made. While it was expensive, compared to other semi-autos such as a Ruger 10/22, I can say that the workmanship and design are very, very nice. Supposedly, these come with "match grade" barrels. I cannot prove that out yet, as all I did was shoot off-hand, but the thing certainly does hold it's own! This spring, when I can actually sit outside without freezing my buns off, I'll do a true accuracy check. But it's certainly good enough for plinking at this point. Functioned flawlessly. The only time I had problems was with sub-sonic ammo (Remington). The owner's manual specifically states that sub-sonic ammo of any brand is not to be used. Not that it's detrimental to the weapon, but because it simply does not have enough "omppf" to reliably cycle the action. The bulk of what I shot was bulk Federal ammo; the kind that you can get a Wally World in those boxed 550-count containers. Ran the whole box through and no issues at all; says a lot for both the ammo and the gun. Very easy to get multiple cycles shot on target. Double and tripple-tap shots would ring the metal plates I shoot at! My son had a great time with it as well. Very easy for him to handle. The adjustable stock length allows for easy LOP adjustments. To say he was enjoying himself is an understatement. Overall, I am very pleased! It was a bit expensive for a .22, but I'm happy, and I guess that is what counts. I would also say this; there are two versions going around, as I had previously indicated. One has a straight barrel end, the other has a threaded end with a flash hider. I had hoped that the gun would cycle sub-sonic ammo, and that the threaded end would be useful to mount the suppressor; it was not to be. In hindsight, I would have been better off with the straight barrel, and just saving the $50. But, you never know until you try, right? I would recommend this gun to anyone seeking a fun gun, and/or a training gun (to move up to an AR-15 someday). It's a bit expensive for a plinker (versus say a Marlin mld 60, or a Ruger 10/22), but I see this gun as a want and not a need, and therefore some amount of logic is ignored and a nod goes to desire. The quality and function are awesome.

I guess I'll ask why you'd want a scope for only 75 yards, for a WTSHTF gun? WTSHTF guns are not a "take your time and aim for the hunt" gun; you're supposed to be able to count on them, well, WTSHTF. We use the mini-14 as our issue-rifle at the Sheriff's Office. Ours are stainless barreled with iron sights, and we have to qualify with them out to 100 yards (not that hard, really). Some of our officers have transitioned to AR-15s with vision aid scopes. Yet I qualify (and shoot) just as well with iron sights. Push out past 100 yards? Yes, scopes become a necessity. But limited to 75 yards or less; I believe scopes to be a hinderance at those distances. To me, iron sights are the best for 100 yards or less. The ultimate in reliability; nothing to break off or bump out of alignment. Further, a true combat type weapon (which is what a WTSHTF gun is) should allow you both a good point-of-impact aim (achievable with iron sights), and ALSO provide a good periphial view (which a scope does not). I get tickeled when I see guys put very expensive RedDot sights on their ARs and such, and then I can out-shoot them in a combat style course, because they cannot attain the target (especially when the range distance varies greatly from target to target) quickly. Iron sights allow you to quickly ascertain the surrounding threats. MilSpec electronic sights do a moderate job, but true "scopes" just absolutely make that difficult. To each his own, though. If you're dead set on getting a scope, and your pratical limit will be 100 yards or less, I'd consider a "scout" type scope, such as a fixed 4x power with a long eye relief. There's no need for more than that in a combat duty type weapon, which is exactly what a WTSHTF weapon is. I guess the reason I'm nit-picking here is because a WTSHTF weapon is, by definition, a life saving tool. It's not to be a toy; it's to be ultra reliable and perform to a stated criteria. You've defined the job and picked a very reliable action. Now you need a sight system to match that same "no frills, get the job done with zero failure" mentality. This is just my opinion, obviously. Your choice is no more right or wrong than mine. I just wanted to offer some conceptual challenge to the choice of a scope for such short distances.

Just got my new S&W M&P-22 at the gun show last night. Very nice looking with a good "feel" to it. There seem to be two versions floating around. One has a straight barrel, the other has a threaded flash hider. I have found the straight version for just a hair over $400. I paid $450 for mine with the threaded barrell. It was worth the extra money for me, because I can remove the hider and put on my suppressor and shoot sub-sonic ammo. I have to work today, so perhaps I'll get a chance to shoot later this weekend. I'll keep all informed. Also, searched for additional mags for the little .22, and found that S&W has them on their site for $20, which is no more or less than anywhere else I could find on the net. I got two more on the way. Factory mags are the one thing that I often seem to find work best. With aftermarket mags, you might get a great deal on a fine product, or you might get hosed; I've had it go both ways.

My nextdoor neighbor has a Ceiner .22lr conversion for his AR-15. It does foul frequently, and eventually will not cycle well. This is one of the driving reasons I want an AR styled weapon that is specifially designed as a .22lr, and not a conversion. My Ceiner .22lr conversions for my Glock and 1911 have been much more reliable than that AR conversion of my neighbor's.

I got to handle one at the store this weekend. Very nicely made, I must say. Pretty much made up my mind to get one; now just shopping best price. Found them for $405 (plus tax) in KY, but I'd have to drive to get there. To get it locally, I'd offset the fuel cost of driving down by paying about $30 more. So somewhere around $440 out the door would be OK with me. The local store I saw it at this weekend wanted $475 plus tax; too high. I could drive to KY and get it for less.

I have some conversions for other weapons; I have had great success with Ceiner .22lr conversions for my 1911 and Glk 23 pistols. The only reason I don't really want a conversion for my AR-15 Bushmaster is because it becomes an exclusive relationship; if I'm shooting the AR in .223, then my son cannot be shooting the same lower at the same time with me, as a .22lr. To me, having a seperate rifle allows us to enjoy shooting at the same time. Why have him start with an exact replica of an AR-15? Well, I don't have any solid "it's just gotta be this way" answer. It's just a preference. Certainly there is a "black gun" appeal to the AR style in many venues, and that applies to people of all ages. My son is 10 years old, and is very good with weapons, from a perspective of healthy safety respect for the item, proper gun handling, and also his skill level. We aleady have a Ruger 10/22, a Marlin mdl 60, a Rossi pump gun, a Marlin bolt action all in .22 and I was just looking for another rimfire rifle for cheap shooting, that replicated the experience of a military weapon for my son's enjoyment. I don't "need" this at all; it's a "want". I cannot give you much logical explination, as it's more of an emotional attachment. Black guns (AR style weapons) have a desireable mystique to us. Some people like them, some don't. It's not right or wrong; it's just personal preference. I just thought it might be fun, both for him and me, to have the fun of shooting an AR platform, with less expense, at the same time. As near I can tell, only the S&W M&P22 is an exact duplicate, where all controls and parameters function like the AR-15. I just wondered if anyone here had personal experience with the S&W M&P .22lr. I don't want to purchase it and find out they don't feed well, or have some inherent problem unforseen at the gun store.

I'm considering getting a new semi-auto .22 rifle. I already have several including a 10/22, a Marlin mdl 60, etc. But I like the idea of getting an AR style .22 rifle for a training tool for my son. I have an AR-15 .223 Bushmaster. I like the idea of him training on a very similar weapon in .22LR. I've read about several AR style .22's including the Remington, the S&W, the Ruger, etc. What I like about the S&W (only from my reading; I have not held or shot one) is that the S&W M&P .22 is exactly like an AR. All components function exactly as a full AR-15 does. The mag release, the bolt release, the safety are all identical. I read about some other brands last night, and they are similar. But "similar" is not the "same". One of them has a bolt release, but it is cosmetic only; it is there to visually mimic the bolt release, but it actually does nothing. Another has a safety that rotates 180 degrees, rather the the traditional 90 degrees like an AR-15. Sure, they probably will shoot just fine, but my concept was any weapon that functions EXACTLY like an AR-15 will make the transition easier some day. Not that learning other skills of different weapons is a bad thing. I just like the idea of true "same" features. And these items that are truly the "same" are some of the most important physical memory skills needed, if (Lord forbid) it ever came down to his life/death decision some day. The safety, the bolt release, the mag release all being EXACTLY the same will make for good memory retention. My thoughts are that if the S&W M&P .22 is exactly like the AR-15, the transition some day will be nearly flawless for my son. So my question is this: Does anyone have one? How has it shot? Is it reliable? (will it cycle without a lot of FTF or stovepipes?, etc?) What cost did you pay? Would you recommend to others?