WARNING: CZ Pistols & Fiocchi Extrema 115 Gr JHP

[JayPee]

Yesterday I posted a range report on my CZ 85 B in this forum, and in it I quoted the use of the Fiocchi Extrema 115 grain load. I was subsequently contacted by the owner of a CZ 75 compact who said he had had difficulties in his gun with this load contacting the rifling when chambered. He said the rounds would fire off, but could not be extracted if left unfired. He had managed to get one out and found rifling marks on the bullet. I promised him I would chamber one first thing this morning and report back to him........I did so and the round locked my gun up tight. Here is the reply I wrote back to him. (on another forum.)

"As promised, I chambered a round of the ammo you mentioned in my CZ 85B this morning and my CZ 85B did exactly the same thing your compact did with the Fiocchi Extrema 9mm 115 grain load - LOCKED THE GUN UP TIGHT. (the ammo is coded 9XTP and XTPHP.

I loaded one into the magazine, inserted the mag into the gun with the slide locked back. I released the slide stop and the slide closed normally. However, it was locked up tight and would not come open. I lowered the hammer to the half cock and managed to move the slide back just far enough to remove the slide stop and field strip the gun, which is only about 3/8 inch on this model. The round was stuck tight in the chamber and it took a sharp rap on a plastic cleaning rod with a screwdriver handle to knock the round out of the barrel.

Upon examining the round, there were barrel chafe marks on the bullet at the point it begins to slant inwards and the straight part ends. It is visibly seated further into the case than new rounds and I can feel a difference in overall length on a set of calipers between this round and new rounds. So it's obvious that the bullet was driven deeper into the case when it slammed into the leade of the barrel.

Here are two photos showing the difference between the subject round in the middle, with a fresh round on each side. The difference in seating depth is quite visible, as is the chafing of the copper jacket. Here it is:

Here's another one from a different angle showing the same thing.

I fired prolly 20 of these rounds yesterday without incident, but I will not fire any more of them now that I know the gun is pushing the bullets further into the case. They did not demonstrate any excessive recoil, so the bullets apparently weren't reseated deep enough to affect pressures - THIS TIME.

I declined to chamber any of these loads in my other 9mm's to test them in other guns because those guns all require full retraction of the slide to disassemble them and if the bullet should lock one of these guns up I'm in a dangerous position in trying to tap the bullet back into the case to get the gun apart. So I really don't know if they are just a problem in the CZ and I don't intend to find out.

Thank you immensely for your warning and I hope this answers your question.

Jer "

So like I said, fellows, I don't know if this is just a problem with CZ pistols, or if it also occurs in other makes of pistols, and I don't intend to find out. Pushing bullets into the case and compressing the powder charge is a good way to blow up a gun, and I will not use any ammunition in which the bullet is pushed further into the case by routine chambering. I'm aware that my rapping on the bullet could have driven the bullet further into the case, but I'm not willing to take that chance. I'm through with this particular load.

Wayne, if this is posted in the wrong place, you won't hurt my feelings by moving it. And this is in no way a criticism of CZ pistols.....if you'll read my range report you'll find I hold them in the highest regard.

Jer

[wwillson]

JP,

Thanks for posting this warning. I'm very curious if anyone has called Fiocchi to see what they say about this ammunition?

Wayne

[JayPee]

I don't know, Wayne. From the replies I'm getting to this post on other forums and from friends, it appears that the CZ has a shorter leade than other guns and that the XTP bullet requires a lot of caution in auto pistols because it is prone to cause this kind of problem. So it appears to be a combination of factors, but I've also had some warnings about the XTP bullet doing this in other guns besides the CZ, so I don't think it's just the gun. Like I said, there are too many other good bullets out there for me to keep using this load. To each his own....One fellow will only own guns that will chamber the XTP, so it definitely has a following.

JP

[JayPee]

Well, I went ahead and did some testing and have pretty well concluded that my CZ 85B has a problem with the Fiocchi Extrema 115 grain load's overall cartridge length. I stripped the '85B and kerplunked five examples of each of the other five loads I used in the test into the chamber and all kerplunked in fine and came tumbling out as soon as I turned the barrel muzzle up. So then I reassembled the pistol and chambered one example of each of these five loads and all extracted just fine, including the Fiocchi 124 grain Extrema JHP.

So I took two FEG's and an FM 95 outside and repeated this process with the Fiocchi 115 grain load that had frozen the CZ up earlier in the day and they fed and extracted in these guns just fine.

So what we have here is a classic example of why a lot of knowledgeable authorities always kerplunk their carry rounds into the stripped chamber before loading them into their carry mags.

The traffic I've received on this issue as of now indicates that the CZ line of 9mm pistols has somewhat of a reputation for their 9mm chambers being a bit shorter than others, and the Hornady XTP bullet, although immensely popular, has somewhat of a reputation of causing this kind of problem unless its seating depth is closely matched to one's particular auto pistol. It seems to me that neither the pistol nor the Fiocchi load are defective, they just don't like each other. I think I'll leave it at that for now.

JP