USPSA & IDPA

[hittman]

Dose anyone shoot any of these? witch one is beter?

any thoughts?

[BarryinIN]

Short answers:

Yes.

Neither/both.

Lots of thoughts.

OK, the longer answers:

I shoot both. I shot IPSC/USPSA starting about 1997 and joined IDPA a couple of years later even though there were no places to shoot it around here yet.

I quit USPSA for a few years and started up again about six years ago. IDPA clubs have come and gone around here over the years. We've had two or three within reasonable driving distance for a few years now.

I can shoot one of the other (or 3-gun) just about any weekend.

Which is better depends on what you're after.

If you like playing around with cutting edge guns and seeing how crazy fast you can go, USPSA is it. As far as I've seen locally, the best shooters shoot USPSA. That shouldn't scare new people off though, because they have so many divisions that new people won't shoot against the top dogs and the Glock shooters won't compete directly against the $4,000 race guns.

There will be more shooting, with a stage having as many as maybe 40 rounds fired, although most run around 20. A local match might call for 150 rounds or more, although they can vary widely. I'd guess the least I see shot are 60 rounds, and the most 170, with an average of about 125. There are usually 5-7 stages.

IDPA is usually considered better for those wanting to practice with their carry gun and gear. They don't allow guns that are very far from stock, holsters have to be concealable, and you will usually have the gun concealed by some article of clothing. You will have to use cover (hide behind and shoot around a wall) most times. The stages are "revolver friendly" in that you won't first more than six rounds from any one spot, and you won't shoot more than 18 rounds in a string, usually less. The stages are shorter than USPSA, and they often have more of them, but the overall match round count is still usually lower. Our matches might have 6-8 stages and use 60-110 rounds. I'd guess they average around 75 rounds.

I go to both to use them as practice with my carry gun and gear. I shoot both games using my regular carry gun and holster, from under the same concealment I use everyday. People will tell you that USPSA is no good for this, but I disagree. A lot of other people will tell you both disciplines are a waste of time, and only good for instilling bad habits. I disagree with that too...as long as you are careful.

It is easy to get caught up in the competition aspect and start doing things you know you shouldn't just to get a slightly better time. When I am faced with these choices and realize later that it never occurred to me to do it the "fast" way instead of the "safe" way, I at least learned that my practice is paying off and that made the trip worthwhile.

You probably won't win a USPSA match by shooting from behind cover and drawing from concealment, but you can get some good practice doing it. It's a chance to practice gunhandling skills under a little pressure, even if it doesn't match receiving incoming rounds.

No matter how wild a USPSA stage, I can almost always look at it and see a good lesson. This occurred to me at one match where we had to shoot through gaps between stacked barrels at 18 targets stacked one above each other in nine pairs. I wondered when I would ever have to do such a thing. I finally realized that while I might not to exactly that, I might have to shoot at one person who is running and bobbing while we each are trying to stay behind cover so I am presented with 18 different targets.

This may be a repeat of some things I just said, but this is a post I made a couple of years ago at another forum in response to "Will matches get you killed?"

I try to shoot IPSC or IDPA when I can, and I do it to practice with my carry gun and gear. I think doing this has benefitted me, but I also think there is a right and wrong way to do it.

I haven't seen the inside of a Guns & Ammo for 15 or more years, but I hear there is another "Will IPSC get you killed?" type story in the latest issue. I haven't seen it, but have heard it discussed. That and another recent thread got me thinking about this.

I think competition can help IF used well.

Let me say that I feel neither IPSC or IDPA is training.

Every time I go to an IDPA match, someone remarks about what good training it is. It isn't training- it's practice. Training is when you have someone teaching you something and correcting your mistakes. Practice is when you exercise what you learned in training. This is one reason why I didn't post this under a "Training" heading.

The usual criticism I hear about these games is that "they aren't relevent", especially about IPSC. I felt way for a long time. I saw the guns and tactics used and could see no "practical" benefit. I hear the same things from others: "Nobody carries a gun with a multi-chamber compensator and holds 20+ rounds in everyday life, or carries it in a low-slung skeleton holster." "They avoid cover and reload out in the open."

So don't do those things.

You don't have to.

Nobody makes you use a gun you would never carry.

Nobody makes you run into the open to shoot.

Go ahead- Use your carry gun. Use your concealment holster. Carry it concealed. Use cover.

In IDPA, people point to things like the tactical reload, saying few would use anything but a speed reload in a gunfight. So do speed reloads and eat the penalty.

That's the thing about either game. You can use them however you like- within safety limits.

They are exactly what you make of them.

If you want to shoot IPSC to play with the top fuel dragsters of guns- go ahead. I did it at first, and had fun playing with the toys, but got bored with it quick.

If you want to use your carry gun and gear to get some practice or try different things like rearranging mag pouches to see how they work, it's a great place to do it.

If you just want to hang around other gun people for a few hours, that's a great reason.

I go to practice with my carry gun and gear. I get to use scenarios that I could never set-up by myself. I get the added bit of pressure that comes from shooting in front of others (and from being that oddball who uses his carry gun). It's not the same pressure you get in a gunfight, but it's more than you get shooting alone or with a buddy or two.

Mostly, I can see that I'm doing what I'm supposed to do.

I know what I've been taught. I know what I practice. But there is a temptation in a match to take shortcuts to place better. I will be tempted at times to go ahead and do something the faster, but less tactically correct, way "just this once". When I avoid that, and do things the "right" way, my training and practice must be paying off and I'm pretty happy. I've finished shooting a course, and only after I'm done do I realize that I took the time to pie a corner, or ducked back behind cover to reload. I didn't notice it at the time, but either thought about it afterward or- when the other shooters were mocking my taking cover from cardboard people.

I get more pleasure from realizing I did something the right way without trying, than by placing a spot or two higher.

But it's easy to feel thatw ay when I know I'm not going to win the thing anyway.

One last benefit to shooting them is that it makes me go shoot. If the weather is crummy, or I'm feeling lazy, I might still go to a match even if I wouldn't have bothered to practice on my own that day. For that reason, it's often another day I go shoot that I might not have otherwise.

So can IPSC or IDPA be harmful? Yes they can, if you let them be.

But I think they can be helpful...if you let them.

I know a lot of people still refuse to go, but I'd rather go and shoot the matches my way than sit at home or cut grass on the weekend while complaining they "aren't relevent".

Going shooting usually beats talking about shooting.

[hittman]

thank you