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Practically Shooting

Mini 30 (theme on a roll)


Pablo

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I don't know what advantage a Mini-30 has over an AK as far as a plinker goes. Maybe it isn't as ugly, but I don't think it's by very much of an edge. Sights are about the same- maybe a little better on the Mini, but not much.

I can't imagine accuracy being any better at all (and the unsubstantiated reports I've heard make the Mini-30 sound worse).

In the SHTF point of view, I see almost no advantage to the Mini and a lot of disadvantages.

The Mini might match the AK for reliability, but no more than that. I wouldn't want to settle for "might" in that situation. The AK is not malfunction proof, but is about as malf resistant as it gets.

The Mini is a rifle altered to shoot a different cartridge, that few spare 7.62-specific parts would exist for. Not that you would need to that I know of, but just as an example, I bet you couldn't get a Mini-30 bolt from Ruger right now for any amount of money. I can probably get a new AK bolt within an hour.

The Mini-14 in .223 has existed for almost 40 years but I bet there were almost as many if not more AKs sold here in the last four years. Mini-30 sales are probably a drop in a bucket compared to Mini-14 sales over the years. Point being, I might find a .223 to swipe parts from, but a 7.62x39 would be a lot less likely. If the S does HTF, there might be even more AKs coming with it to provide parts.

Hi-cap mags for a Mini-30? I imagine someone makes them, but how good are they? I think it best to figure on a Mini-30 being a five round SHTF gun. If I am limited to a five-shooter in that situation, I want a shotgun, a lever action carbine, or a light .308/.30-06 bolt action.

I just don't see any advantage except maybe, maybe, a Mini-30 won't look so scary to passersby you don't want to ruffle. But then neither would the shotgun I'd choose. Actually two shotguns, because that's what I'd get for the cost of a Mini-30. I suppose the other side of that is that you might want scary-looking sometime too.

From what I can see, the Mini-30 runs about a hundred bucks more than a plain old AK. I can understand that $500 for an AK sounds crazy, but another hundred for a Mini-30 sounds even worse to me. An AK shouldn't cost more than about $200, IMO, but while I can see a Mini might cost more to make, I don't see that the value is there.

Throwing another wrench in the works, I'd rather get an M1 Carbine than a Mini-30. Parts are plentiful, the "little" mags hold 15 (triple a Mini-30) and fit in any pocket, and I think the sights are better than either the AK or Mini sights. I think they are a handier, and have better ergonomics than either of them too. They work, and actually shoot well. With a little practice, they are stupid fast handling in defensive type scenarios. Shoot one a while, then run a few pistol drills with one (El Presidentes, etc) and it can be eye opening. I am going to an IDPA-style Carbine match this weekend and might use one. I have shot mine in this type of thing before and didn't feel like I screwed up by leaving an AR at home. I even won the match the last time I used it- the only one I've won this year.

GI ones have gotten stupid expensive, but I don't know what new Kahr/AutoOrd ones run. Some CMP M1 Carbines weren't that much more than a Mini-30.

***The above is just my personal opinion, and not meant to be mean, ugly, and nasty, or anything, but it is my honest opinion. Given the gravity of the situation (possible SHTF or "just" a bump in the night) I don't think some things can be stressed too hard, and that can bring about a little more frankness than perhaps usual.

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I am still somewhat in shock over the current low end AK prices. My cheapo was $339, but while it seems like just a couple of years ago, it was probably more like five years. A 75-80% increase, regardless of how long ago it was, is hard to take.

I am truthfully not finding a $600 Mini any easier to take, though.

Let me look at this from a different angle.

If I were debating between an $800 AR and a $600 Mini, I would look at the AR and see several things I want or like better. I could point to better ergonomics, better accuracy, some parts that might get extra testing (the mystical "Mil-Spec", although some if that will probably be skipped on an $800 one), more common and cheaper magazines, etc.

My question would be if I wanted to, or could, spend the extra $200 to get those things.

Comparing a $500 AK to a $600 Mini-30, I see the Mini's only advantage is being prettier. Well, not as bad looking.

If this rifle was for a plinker only, that would be one thing, but with the possible SHTF consideration, looks aren't going to score very heavily in my comparison.

If the S truly does HTF, looks don't matter much, and we are comparing what is more or less a really nice plinker (Mini) to what is more or less the same as the most common military rifle in the world (AK). I don't see much of a comparison when viewed as SHTF rifles.

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The quality of build for a mini-30 is far above the typical AK for any given price range.

I own one of each. They both shoot about the same as far as accuracy goes. Both are based upon very reliable action systems that are hard to foul, easy to clean, and simple to take down.

There are some Ruger brand 20 rnd mags for the mini-30; I got some during one of their promotions last year. They work flawlessly. I've also got some mag-pull that work ok as well.

It's true that mini-30 parts might be a bit hard to come by, but then again they are not prominent in the market because they simply don't fail often enough to warrant high stock levels with retailers. Same goes for the AK. If they don't break often, there isn't a high demand for replacement parts. That's both good and bad; good in that they are robust and bad that if you need a part immmediately, you may not find one "right now".

Neither is a sniper's rifle; they are battle weapons that respond well to open sights and function well not only when the SHTF, but when the S falls into the breech and trys to foul the weapon. When the SHTF, it's not a competition; it's a battle of the fittest. You must select your weapon to suite your expected environment. If you live in the open prairie, and have 360 degrees of 500+ yard shots around your home, these are not the items for you. If you want a battle weapon that can take a beating, while full of crud, and still put Pb down range at moderate distances, then these will both fill the bill nicely.

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Well, at this point I'm committed to 7.62x39 as I have a new Mini 30 and a cheapo (WASR-10) AK47, so I don't think it's crazy to consider buying (either) one.

I keep the AK47 at the office, and the Mini 30 at the lake house as one never knows where one will be when the SHTF. Hi cap mags do exist for the Mini 30 - I have a factory Ruger 20 round mag, in addition to the supplied five rounder.

Pablo, Sig also makes the 556 in 7.62x39 as the Sig 556R. They're about $1200. My Mini 30 was about $700 IIRC. I got my AK when they were cheap, which wasn't that long ago. The Sig is on my to do list, but I just haven't gotten around to it yet.

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I was "lucky" and got my ligtly used stainless steel mini-30, with 1800 rounds of misc brand ammo, from an estate clearance from the daughter, for $600. Yes, I paid cash and ran to the truck with the goods before she could change her mind.

I have mine outfitted with an ATI folding stock.

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Since Ruger sells 20-Rd mags, that bumps it up a little in my opinion on the SHTF end of things. I said "a little" because those 20-rd mags cost around three times as much as the last 30-rd AK mags I bought.

I'd still need to see a Mini (14 or 30) get through a carbine class before I'd consider one for anything my life depended on. I have only seen two Mini-14s start classes I was in, and neither finished. I know one didn't finish the first day, but don't remember when the other went down. The one that died for sure on day one had a broke bolt (cracked a lug, which is what I was thinking about when I used the replacement bolt example above) and the other had some sort of failure I never learned the specifics of. It was a gun problem based on the razzing he got, but whether it was breakage, malfunctions, or simply a lost part when cleaning, I have no idea.

Classes are hard on guns. They see as much shooting in three days than most do in a year or more. I have a theory it's the heat that assists in failures. They never do really get a good cooling off until each day ends.

Maybe if I'd only seen two ARs or two AKs start classes, they might have failed to finish also but that's all the Minis I've seen in classes. Maybe that means something.

I had not thought about it until just now, but I don't remember ever seeing a Mini in a 3-gun match either. I would expect to see them there because they are fairly common. Just fwiw, but they are conspicuous by their absence.

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Pablo,you might consider a Saiga and some 30rd Surefire mags?

I wonder if anyone makes a wood rpl stock for Saigas. I can vaguely recall such an image in my mind, but it could be something like a Valmet from 30 years ago that never saw production, or some such scattered memory.

A wood-stocked Saiga- I think Pablo might like that.

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Originally Posted By: RLH70
Pablo,you might consider a Saiga and some 30rd Surefire mags?

I wonder if anyone makes a wood rpl stock for Saigas. I can vaguely recall such an image in my mind, but it could be something like a Valmet from 30 years ago that never saw production, or some such scattered memory.

A wood-stocked Saiga- I think Pablo might like that.

I believe TimberSmith makes wood furniture for the Saiga. Personally, for a SHTF rifle, I would prefer synthetic to wood.

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The one where the Mini had the broken bolt lug was in May 2006. The one with the mystery problem was in Aug 2010.

I should add this about rifles failing in classes, while I'm thinking about it. This is only a guess, but I sometimes wonder if these problems were already in the works beforehand. For example, that bolt which failed, maybe it had been cracked since new and nearly impossible to see, but it took a few hours of near-continuous use to finish it off. Hard to say.

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Thank goodness the AR is not all that, either.

We had an attempted massacre at a local courthouse a couple of days ago. (Google: "crawford county courthouse shooting") that by miracle only resulted in one woman being shot in the leg, a non life threatening wound, and ended with the crazed perp shot down on the courthouse lawn.

Anyway, the local newspapers are reporting that video surveillance cameras in the courthouse and outside show the gunman's weapon repeatedly malfunctioning, and the cops claim to have recovered 25-30 live rounds about the premises.

The weapon? An AR of some variety.

I think the Mini's are a reasonable and reliable choice for a SHTF weapon. The AK is probably a better choice than either a Mini or an AR.

In Arkansas, no ccw in courthouses, so this guy was unopposed. To make matters worse, cellular 911 calls went to the wrong county, and the intial response went to the wrong courthouse.

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