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Practically Shooting

Scout Rifles


BarryinIN

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I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the Scout Rifle might be one of the most misunderstood guns around. I'm not sure if most people know what it was supposed to be.

When you read or hear "Scout rifle", what do you think of?

I ask this because I get the impression a lot of people seem to think it's a military rifle. It's not. It can be used for fighting, but it was not the prime intent.

Jeff Cooper came up with the criteria and name, and it was for a light, handy, general purpose, hunting rifle.

A hunting rifle. Not a military rifle.

Lightweight and handy. Taking just any rifle and adding a scope in a funny place won't do it.

General purpose. It had to use a cartridge capable of taking most game the North American hunter would ever see, and that was popular enough to obtained almost anywhere ammunition can be found. Not a .22 or .223, not a .458 Win Mag, not an oddball cartridge that was used by one country's army 60 years ago.

This more or less came together after he had hunted for a while with one of the little Remington model 600 carbines in .308 in the 1960s. He found this handy little rifle capable of doing 95% of everything he ever wanted a rifle to do. It might not do everything, but it would come real close.

A general purpose hunting rifle.

He refined this over years using factory and custom rifles. I have a Guns & Ammo magazine from the late 60s with an article he did on carbines that is now obviously a preview of where he was headed. He hosted a Scout Rifle Conference at Gunsite in 1983, inviting shooters, hunters, and rifle makers to has out the details in a rifleman's think tank. From this came the specs for a Scout rifle.

So when someone sees a Steyr Scout and dismisses it because they only like hunting rifles, it shows me they missed the entire point. I have seen and heard this many times.

I get the impression a lot of people think it was created as a military rifle first and foremost. I have seen posts on several forums where the Scout is dismissed as being unsuitable for "today's battlefield", with no mention of it for sporting use. They wonder why Col Cooper thought a rifle suited for WWI warfare would have succeeded today.

Here is one of my "favorites": "(Jeff Cooper's) Scout Rifle was a great concept for warfare, right up until about 1913."

I don't know where that comes from. It doesn't come from Jeff Cooper's writings, and believe me, he wrote about it a lot. He would discuss that the Scout was certainly usable for anti-personnel use and that he would rather take one to war than a "poodle shooter" but I never saw anything that gave me the idea his intent was the re-arm the world's armies with little bitty bolt actions.

Maybe it's from the name. Cooper got the name "scout" from the old military definition of a scout, which was:

"...a man trained in ground and cover, movement from cover to cover, marksmanship, map reading, observation, and reporting the results of his observation", which he noticed, for the most part, also defined a hunter's actions and skills. I think he found the definition fitting and had a nice ring to it.

For all I know, it could be the color. The Steyr Scout started out having a green stock, and maybe some people think anything close to Olive Drab belongs in the army.

I don't know. Just wondering aloud. When you guys see a Scout rifle, do you think "military"?

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Thinking more on this...

If people do know it is a sporting rifle, a lot of them think it is a specialized piece.

That is the exact opposite of what it was meant to be. It is supposed to be a general purpose hunting rifle. It's the rifle you can pick up and head out the door with, and be able to take just about anything in North America.

Although liking Jeff Cooper's general purpose rifle concept when I first read about it, I hated the Steyr Scout when it came out. I thought it looked awful and I knew I'd hate the scope. I was into other things and gave the General Purpose rifle concept little thought after that.

Then a friend said I needed to at least shoulder one before hating it. This rifle is not his style, so I knew there must be something to it if he liked it. It took a while, but I did try one. It took a few snaps to the shoulder, but I came to like the scope, then the rest fell into place for me. I started looking into the General Purpose rifle concept again, and liked it. I made up a Mauser actioned rifle that was close and used it a while, then got my own Steyr Scout a couple of years ago.

It might actually be a general purpose rifle. Like any other general purpose tool, it might not do everything well, but this one does most of them pretty well. It is at least as handy as any lever action carbine I've handled. Accuracy is not a question at all. The bolt is easily manipulated and I can shoot it pretty fast for a manually operated rifle. I shot it in an IPSC 3-gun match once and while I was never a threat to win, I was not last either.

I had it at the range last year when a guy I knew shows up. He's a good guy. We used to work at the same place though we never worked in the same area or really knew each other there, but we have crossed paths at rifle and pistol matches over the last 15 years.

He looks at my Steyr, says nice things and says he would like to have one, but he didn't need a rifle like that. Before he was done, he had shot a heavy barreled Savage model 12 .308, a Winchester 94 .30-30, and a stainless synthetic Remington 700 in .30-06.

If he didn't need a Scout, he didn't need those rifles either. I can't think of a thing he could do with any or all of those three rifles he couldn't do with one Scout, and might do some of it better or easier. Steyr Scouts aren't cheap, but I am sure I had less money in mine than he had in his three rifles and two scopes.

I've had other similar experiences. People say they can't use a Scout because of what they need a rifle for, yet the Scout sounds perfect to me. I am not sure what they think it's for.

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Well I'll stick my opinion in here. I don't think of any military rifle when describing a gun as a scout. The first thing that comes to mind a trapper version of a lever gun. It's light, easy to swing, easy to carry, decent capacity, and has enough power to kill most game in the area. In Texas a 30-30 is more than enough power to for hunting or for protection. As kids we used to have to carry a gun but I really don't remember why but my step dad was adamant about leaving the house with a gun. I had a Marlin trapper version of the 336 that I carried tons of miles. It was my scout gun. If I were to go see my brother at Laredo where seeing a drug dealer in the brush is common, a lever gun is far better than a bolt gun if you have a clue how to use it. It beats a heavier military rifle too.

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As with most everything in life one size never fits all, but if I were limited to only one rifle, a scout type rifle would likely be my choice. Being a Savage fan however, I would opt for the model 10 FCM Scout. Coming in at less than half the price of the Steyr I would feel as though I were getting a great value as well. Just my 2 cents...

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Saw Cooper's Scout rifle concepts, and never once thought of it as a military concept as his original intent, but also saw that being chambered in a fairly common military round, and very portable, it would be a useful piece of kit in a period after TSHTF.

I know it spawned quite a few SMLE "Jungle Carbine" relicas in Oz, but .303 British makes it a joke...

However, the AIA "jungle" carbines would make a great Oz scout...although .223 would take care of most Oz "game" south of the Tropic of Capricorn.

http://www.australianinternationalarms.com.au/tests.htm

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Thankfully, it looks like people here get it. I still think the majority of shooters do not.

I've had people look at mine and make a comment such as "I only like guns I can hunt with". Most fall into this group.

I don't know how and why they think it is supposed to be a battle rifle (although one could do some "battling" with one if they wanted).

The rest of them see it as some sort of specialized piece, like a sheep rifle or Dangerous Game gun. These people look at it and say they like it OK but wouldn't tie up money in a gun they can't use for much.

I don't understand this one either. If it actually follows the original Scout idea, it should be able to do just about anything one needs a rifle for.

I usually hear that last one at the range. That's interesting because I always take six or eight rifles to the range so I shoot one while the others cool, and I keep rotating them. When I hear the comment about the Scout being specialized, I turn and look at whatever assortment I have with me and usually know I could replace them all with one Scout and not be hurt much by it.

It's a lot more fun to have a rack full of different rifles than just one, but when I'm being honest with myself I know the Scout is a better general purpose tool for me than a Multi-tool or Crescent wrench.

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However, the AIA "jungle" carbines would make a great Oz scout...although .223 would take care of most Oz "game" south of the Tropic of Capricorn.

http://www.australianinternationalarms.com.au/tests.htm

I've looked at the AIA website before, and like what I see. I currently have just one Lee-Enfield (a #4) but really like them. I'd like to have a few more to go with my one, in smaller (Jungle Carbine style) and larger (match/sniper) versions.

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  • 5 years later...

Almost five years have passed since I posted the above observations.   There may be some more "Scout-ish" options out there now, but I don't think much has changed.  People still seem to look at them and either think it's a very specialized rifle or a pseudo-military rifle.   That's too bad.  

 

I've had hopes that the Scout's increased popularity would allow a few more people to "get it", and see it for the general purpose rifle it is.   The articles I've read sure aren't doing it.    Some, like one in a popular general outdoor magazine went about as expected.   They look at one or two of the rifles without doing any research as to how it came about or what it is for.   

 

I used to think it was due to lack of exposure.  Steyr sure didn't do much to sell it.   But we've been beat over the head with Scouts by gun magazines and blogs in the last few years.  Too bad most didn't grasp it.  The saying about any publicity being good publicity sure does not apply here.

I fear it will be one of those things that will only be understood or appreciated when it's gone. 

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  • 1 year later...
On ‎12‎/‎18‎/‎2016 at 7:37 PM, wwillson said:

Looking at the prices of the Ruger Scout Rifles, personally I would prefer a Mini-14.  It seems to be that the price could steer folks to the less expensive and similarly sized Mini...?

I looked at the Scout Rifles available from both Ruger and Styer. As the concept seemed interesting. But after handling the Springfield SOCOM 16, I couldn't get my money out fast enough. The SOCOM is the Scout Rifle concept on steroids. It offers everything a bolt action Scout Rifle does, but with a massive increase in firepower. (20 rounds of .308 in a well proven semi auto platform).

They are also very dependable, as Springfield properly adapted the gas system to function in the shorter barrel correctly. Any Scout Scope designed for a bolt action Scout, will mount right up to the SOCOM 16. The rifle comes with excellent Trijicon Night Sights, and a rail forward of the action. And compared to the Styer Scout, the cost is actually cheaper. And the weapon is far more available. If you like the Scout bolt action rifle concept, you'll love the Springfield SOCOM 16 version of it.

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Edited by billt
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